Foster care didn't work for Marcus either

Carroll kids' fate in flux
What becomes of 7 children in home?
Brunsman, Barrett. Cincinnati Enquirer, March 18, 2007, pg. B1.

BATAVIA - The future of seven children who lived in the house where Marcus Fiesel died will be decided soon by a judge.

Liz and David Carroll Jr., who were sentenced to life in prison after being found guilty last month in the murder of their 3-year-old foster son, would prefer that their four children be raised by relatives in Clermont County.

Amy Baker, the former live-in girlfriend of the Carrolls who became the key prosecution witness, wants her relatives to care for her own three kids if she can't regain custody of them.

Judge Stephanie Wyler of Juvenile Court will decide that. On Monday, a custody hearing will be held for the Baker kids. A May 7 hearing is scheduled for the Carroll kids.

All seven children were placed in foster care after the couple's Aug. 28 arrest in the death of Marcus. The jailing of the Carrolls left Baker, 25, homeless. She had no job to support her kids.

David Carroll's mother, Debbie Hounshell of Union Township, has applied for custody of his children - a boy and girl who are 8, a 6-year-old boy and a 3-year-old boy. Liz Carroll's father, Delbert Sims of Ohio Township, also has asked the court for the children.

"We're not arguing about who gets custody of them as long as they stay in the family," Sims said. "Me and Debbie have talked. If I get custody of them, I'll drop them off at her house on the way to work and pick them back up on the way home from work. And she would see to it the three oldest get in school."

Sims, 54, who lives in the Mount Pisgah area, said he is a concrete mixer/driver.

He raised Liz Carroll after getting a divorce. His ex-wife, Audrey Sims, 50, has asked the court to be allowed to visit her grandchildren after custody is resolved.

Delbert Sims said he's been allowed to visit his grandchildren for one hour a month since they were placed together in a foster home.

"Most of the time I try to turn the subject real quick (when they ask about their parents)," he said. "You can tell they miss their mom. I think that bothers them more than anything - not being with family."

Hounshell, 51, could not be reached for comment. While separated from his wife, David Carroll lived with Baker in the Mount Carmel area home of Hounshell and her boyfriend, Durl Adkins, 52.

When David Carroll returned to his wife at the house they rented on Valley Wood Drive in Union Township, he took Baker and her kids.

In May, Liz and David Carroll became the foster parents of Marcus, who was placed in the home by Lifeway for Youth, a nonprofit agency based near Dayton, Ohio.

Marcus died after being left in a closet - bound in a blanket with tape - while the couple and Baker attended a reunion of Liz Carroll's family in Grant County, Ky., the weekend of Aug. 4.

Liz Carroll didn't want her relatives to see bruising on Marcus' neck after he was left in a car seat overnight by David Carroll, Baker testified at her murder trial.

The Carrolls were paid about $1,000 a month to care for the developmentally delayed boy.

Unless they become licensed foster parents, relatives granted custody of the Baker or Carroll children won't receive taxpayer money to care for them, according to Clermont County guidelines.

David Carroll, 29, fathered three of the children by Liz, 30, and one by another woman, Christie Lee Adams, 31, of Maryland. Liz Carroll had legal custody of that child.

Clermont officials said Christie Adams has been notified of the custody case. She could not be reached for comment.

Delbert Sims said he and Hounshell want the Carroll kids to stay together.

"I just don't understand why they took the kids to start with," he said of Clermont County Children's Protective Services. "When they picked the kids up, they was at Debbie's house. There shouldn't have been any reason they couldn't have stayed with family through this whole ordeal.

"It's been one hell of a nightmare," he said of the death of Marcus and the consequences for everyone in the family.

Baker's father and stepmother, Bob and Tracy Ramsey of Brown County, have filed for custody of her kids in case she doesn't get them back.

Baker had dropped off the kids at the Ramsey home, just up the road from where David Carroll burned Marcus' body in a chimney amid the ruins of an old house. Clermont County took custody of the kids Aug. 29, the day after the Carrolls were arrested.

Amy Baker is separated from her husband, Brian J. Baker, 26, of Brown County. He works for a gutter company in Mount Orab, according to court records. He could not be reached for comment, and his lawyer, Laura Cogswell, declined to comment.

Both Bakers showed up for an Aug. 30 custody proceeding involving their children, a 7-year-old girl, a 6-year-old boy and a 4-year-old girl.

The court-appointed guardian of the legal interests of the children is Anita Bechmann, a lawyer in the county public defender's office. She and Children's Protective Services have requested that the custody hearings be closed to the public.

Bechmann claims scrutiny could "harm the children or endanger the fairness of the adjudication."

Wyler, who has already ordered all records in the two custody cases sealed, is to decide Monday whether to close the Baker hearing.

Amy Baker couldn't be reached for comment, but her family says she will attend the hearing and wants her kids back.

Baker doesn't favor closing the hearing to the press, said lawyer Tresa Gossett York, who is representing the Ramseys.

The Ramseys said Baker told them their grandchildren have had a horrible experience in foster care, so the grandparents also oppose closing the hearing.

"If the press needs to be there to keep Children's (Protective) Services in check, yeah, let them be there," said Tracy Ramsey, 41. "Foster care ain't working."

The Ramseys haven't been allowed to see their grandchildren, she said, perhaps because her husband has two old theft convictions.

He couldn't discuss the matter with The Enquirer because he was sick in bed with a virus - and gets upset talking about the custody case, Tracy Ramsey said.

A 1985 conviction involved the theft of cable TV service by hooking up an unauthorized tuner, she said. A 1998 guilty plea to a grand theft charge stemmed from a dispute over a fee for work her husband, a self-employed contractor, did on a barn in 1992.

Bob Ramsey, 51, was sentenced to 18 months in prison in 1999 in the grand theft case, but that was suspended and he was placed on probation for three years by Common Pleas Judge Robert P. Ringland, according to Clermont County court records. It was Ringland who sentenced Liz Carroll to life in prison without the possibility of parole for 54 years.

Amy Baker visits her kids every other Monday for about two hours, Tracy Ramsey said.

While the children are together, they have been moved to three different foster homes, Ramsey said. The eldest child is upset because she has had to transfer to three different schools.

"They have no clue what's going on," Ramsey said. "They don't think anybody loves them."

The children were told in detail by Clermont County officials what happened to Marcus, Ramsey said, but the kids haven't been taken to counseling on a regular basis to help them cope with the matter.

"It ain't no different than Marcus," Ramsey said. "Nobody's checking on my grandkids."

About the process
Ohio law requires that no information be revealed about children or families involved with Children's Protective Services, said Clermont County spokeswoman Kathy Lehr.

In custody cases in general, a child may be placed with relatives of the parents if it is determined to be in the best interest of the youth.

Before a child is placed with relatives by Clermont County, checks by Children's Protective Services there or in the county of the prospective caregiver include:

Reviewing records for evidence of child abuse or neglect by adults in the home.

Performing a criminal background check on adults in the home.

Requiring notification of delinquent children in the home between the ages of 12 and 18.

Ensuring that the home is safe and clean.